Is There Such a Thing as Purgatory?

This article examine the origin of the doctrine of Purgatory, which is unique to the Roman Catholic Church. It looks at Scriptural, Apocryphal, and human reason and understanding. It also examines the question of where sin resides in our being.

Yes. But we call it “seminary”. That is just a joke. The doctrine of purgatory, which is unique to the Roman Catholic Church is no joke. I think it is somewhat dangerous. But let’s look at the origin, andthe proof, which is very thin.

The idea is that there is a place and a period in your existence where you have been saved by the grace of Christ but to reach your Heavenly state of perfection you have to go through some suffering in purgatory. How long this will take varies from person to person. It is also something that might be shortened based on the actions of others on your behalf. It is not punishment, per se, it is more polishing.

The doctrine of purgatory does not arrive on the scene until the 12th century. It doesn’t get endorsement until the 13th at the Council of Lyon (1274AD). That is long ago, but awfully late. Could the Holy Spirit wait to reveal a truth until nearly 1300 years after Christ. Sure. Is that what happened? I personally doubt it.

The source of this teaching comes from two things that are owned by the Roman Catholic Church, a likely third thing, and I expect a dangerous fourth.

First, this:

11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 (ESV)

I love quoting this verse. They see this event as something that happens immediately upon death. I would argue that this is our Judgment Day experience. Judgment Day is described in a couple of places as a judgment of our works, and here you have detail. The fire is a way of revealing our acts and motives. It is not a means of purging our sinful acts and motives. Consider the end of this one:

10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

2 Peter 3:10 (ESV)

This is clearly of Judgment Day description with the “works that are done on it” being exposed. That is what 1 Corinthians 3:13 is describing. The person whose works are “burned up” is still saved. Why? Because we are saved by Jesus, not our works. We are rewarded for our works.

One other thing gets dragged into the reasoning for the teaching of Purgatory, and it is from a source that wasn’t even considered Scripture in the 13th century.

43 And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection,44 (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,)45 And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them.

46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.

2 Maccabees 12:43-46 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)

2 Maccabees is a part of the Apocrypha which isn’t included in the Roman Catholic canon of Scripture until the Council of Trent (1563). The reasoning is that someone is praying for the dead in hopes that they might “rise again”. This story’s context is that some of the Jews who lived in the 2nd century BC prayed for some of their men killed in battle. Would these people be in Purgatory? No. This brings me to the third likely source of the doctrine of Purgatory. Purgatory is a misunderstanding of Sheol. https://afterdeathsite.com/2025/07/22/sheol-as-a-waiting-room/. (There is more about Sheol/Hades on this website. Use the search box to look it up or click “Sheol” in the topic section and scroll down)

Sheol is not a place of purging. For the Old Testament righteous, it is a reasonably nice place to wait for the atonement of sins which will happen with Jesus. They are in the “good neighborhood” of Sheol. The Roman Catholic Church has this. They call it “The Limbo of the Fathers”. Some church bodies just use the term from the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man and call it “the bosom of Abraham”. For the damned, Sheol was and is a place of suffering waiting for Judgment Day.

Why pray for the dead? First, I don’t recognize 1 Maccabees as Scripture. Then, I think you have to be careful about how you interpret a narrative, even in Scripture. Just because they did it, doesn’t make it right. That said people in the Limbo of the Fathers really wouldn’t need prayer nor sacrifice. They just needed Jesus to arrive and do what he did.

Is it wrong or pointless to pray for the dead? A person in Heaven doesn’t need it. What about the bad neighborhood of Sheol? Are they judged and damned and beyond hope? That all comes down to the meaning of 1 Peter 4:6.

6 For this is why the gospel was preached even to those who are dead, that though judged in the flesh the way people are, they might live in the spirit the way God does.

1 Peter 4:6 (ESV)

The context of this passage is Jesus’ decent into “Hell” (which should be “Sheol”)https://afterdeathsite.com/2017/03/14/christs-descent-into-hell-part-1/. (There are five parts to this). Does this say that the currently damned in Sheol might still be redeemed by Christ? It would explain why Jesus preached to people from Noah’s day (1 Peter 3:18-20). This is not nullified by Hebrews 9:27, which seems to be the one proof text for those who want to say otherwise.

27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

Hebrews 9:27 (ESV)

The context of this verse does not suggest that final judgment comes immediately on death. It is simply talking about Jesus only needing to die once.

The idea of needing to be purged raises the question of where sinfulness actually resides. Is it in the earthly body, our spirit, or both? “Sinful nature” seems to suggest the body; even specifically our DNA which is the source of our nature. Paul blames the body in Romans 7. Jesus’ virgin birth also points to the need for a body without the starting contamination of sin. What about our “will”? Using the definition of what we are as body, soul, and spirit. The soul seems to be the interface of spirit and body. That is where I would surmise the “will” resides. Its connection to the body is why we don’t have a perfectly free will.

The body is the problem. We purge the body by dying. There is no need for something further.

A final reason, and a dangerous one, for the teaching of Purgatory I fear is a misunderstanding of grace. It is tough to accept salvation as a gift. It feels like we need to add something or experience something to complete it. This idea gets close to the error of the Galatians. The Galatians believed in salvation through Christ but requiring circumcision. That was enough to invalidate the Gospel.

2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. 3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

Galatians 5:2-4 (ESV)

This is why the teaching of Purgatory, even holding to it as tradition, seems dangerous on top of erroneous to me. It does not pass the scrutiny of Scripture and falls into a category where people come up with it via bad logic. The Judaizers appealed to tradition to argue for circumcision being added to grace. Their understanding of the value of tradition was fatal.

Will Good People Be Lost?

The text discusses challenging biblical concepts, particularly the harsh consequences of sin and the unpredictability of salvation. It highlights that both minor and major sins lead to damnation unless atoned for by Jesus. It explores divine love and justice, emphasizing God’s plan for salvation, the unique role of Jesus, and the urgency of sharing this message with others.

There are a couple of things that God reveals in the Bible that are tough to accept. One is the severity of the punishment for sin. Sin can manifest itself in people in ways that are not that destructive. Still, unless it is atoned for by Jesus minor sins are as damning as major ones, and damnation is serious and permanent.

The other difficult thing is that some fairly serious criminals can come to faith and be saved, while other nice people never do and, yes, they are lost. That doesn’t seem fair to us, but we have the wrong perspective on the situation. It is almost inherent to our being to feel that good people deserve good things and bad people deserve bad things. Other world religions fall in line with this tendency. But that is not how it always works in this situation.

If I were to add a third difficult thing to accept it would be that a God of love would accept this arrangement. To sort this out, we have to take a deep dive into the character of the being who has created all things and who is the ultimate judge of what is good and evil.

The first thing to note is that God didn’t create any being in order to damn them. He foresaw that certain individuals would rebel against His primacy and that sin and evil would be a real thing, but rather than scrap Creation God had a plan from the beginning.

4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.

Ephesians 1:4 (NIV)

The plan wasn’t for every creature. It doesn’t have a way to save or reform Satan, a cherubim/seraphim. It doesn’t have a way to save rebellious angels/demons. Their rebellion is different in a way. They choose out of a completely free will to reject God. Adam and Eve did not conceive of evil on their own. Satan deceived them. The rest of us are deeply influenced by our “sinful nature”. This is some sort of genetic abnormality created by the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil (Genesis 3) and passed along to everyone. Other creatures are dragged into this cycle of sin, death, and decay unwillingly.

The plan shows the primary characteristics of God, which is love and justice. He is willing to make to ultimate sacrifice to save. The Son of God becomes a human and absorbs the main penalty for sin Himself. But God doesn’t just forgive because He can. He keeps His law in tact. Jesus even asked if this could be done a different way as He prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane. The Father’s commitment to not arbitrarily change His own law led to Jesus going through with the plan.

25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Romans 3:25-26 (NIV)

He is “just” (i.e. He won’t change the Law), and the justifier (He makes a sacrifice out of love to save.)

A further statement about God’s intent is found in the most famous passage in Scripture:

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

John 3:16-17 (NIV)

Because of the nature of the plan, Jesus is not an option. He is the only way to stand before God as sinless. Even very good people are sinful. We all do something contrary to God’s will every day. We are all modified physically from what we are meant to be. When we call somebody “good” or think of ourselves as “good”, we are speaking relative to others we have known or heard about. We don’t meet that criteria relative to God.

“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good.”

Matthew 19:17 (NIV)

Even knowing the interplay between God’s love and God’s justice, the situation of those who are not connected to Christ can be disturbing. Especially if we know them personally. It is not a bad thing to be disturbed. God is disturbed. It should move us to do what we can. We can tell people of the pertinent parts of Jesus’ story and urge them to read it if they can. We can tell of the promise and the Bible’s description of our human situation. We can even share the rational proofs for the reality of the Bible’s revelation. (Please look at my other blog: http://givingchrist.com for some of these.). We can also demonstrate the love of God through action. God must do the rest. If there is a chance of connecting them to Christ, God will do whatever He can during life and possibly beyond it until Judgement Day. But people will be lost, and some of them will be “good people”.

How Do You Thank God for Eternal Life?

Thanksgiving in the United States, established by Lincoln, is a time for family gatherings and feasting, but often lacks true reflection. The author emphasizes gratefulness for life’s blessings and the importance of recognizing their impermanence due to sin. True thankfulness arises from understanding eternal life through Jesus, which motivates a life aligned with God’s commandments.

Next week in the United States we are celebrating Thanksgiving. For many people it is time to get together with family, eat too much, maybe go to a parade and then watch football. There isn’t much thankful reflection. But the national holiday was established by Abraham Lincoln in 1863 for thankful reflection.

Because God has reached me, I have a connection to Jesus. I know that I am saved by His life and death. I currently have eternal life. That is significantly different from eternal existence that every human has. I have a place with God. I haven’t experienced Heaven, being rid of my limited and sinful body, having a heavenly body, or a resurrected earthly body yet. But I will. My lack of experience does dampen my thankfulness, however.

Can I get past my lack of experience? Here is where reflection comes in. I want to be thankful for all the good things currently in my life. There are plenty of them. I also want to acknowledge that these things are temporary and not perfect. Everything and everyone is impacted by sin and the curse. My life would be utterly meaningless without something good coming after my death. Just read the book of Ecclesiastes and see how depressed Solomon, who is a very accomplished, wealthy and wise person, feels about his life without a knowledge of eternal life through Jesus. I have knowledge of eternal life through Jesus. I am aging, but my “glory days” are all ahead of me, and they are really a big deal. Reflect on that for a bit.

You can say or sing thanks. You can go to church. We at least have a worship service on Thanksgiving. But if you would ask Jesus, “How can I thank you, Lord?” He would tell you:

15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.”

John 14:15 (ESV)

There are many motivations to do what God teaches us is good and right. Love of God and thankfulness rise to the top. Don’t limit this to Thanksgiving Day. It deserves better. Thank God with your life.

Do keep in mind, that keeping God’s commandments can no longer save you. You had to do it perfectly, and ship sailed for you long ago. Now you have a different motivation. Jesus did the heavy lifting that you could not do. You can respond thankfully.

We really don’t appreciate the scope of what has been done for us. We don’t grasp the difficulty of what Jesus did. We don’t understand the depth of horror that awaits those who go to Judgment Day without the forgiveness of their sins. We don’t understand how great eternal life without sinful nature, without the curse, in the vast creativeness and beauty of what God has prepared for us. And we don’t fully appreciate how enthralling it will be to see God face-to-face. Yet, for the little we can imagine, we have plenty of reason to be happy and thankful.

If you don’t know much about what comes next for those who belong to Christ, then explore the articles of this blog. Use the search bar and look for Heaven, the New Earth, and then look at other things in the topic column.

Have a great Thanksgiving.

What Is Satan?

The post explores the biblical figure of Satan, discussing his nature, identities, and presence in both Heaven and Earth, including his manifestation as the King of Tyre. It argues that Satan is not merely a myth but a complex being with significant influence over human history and actions, rooted in scriptural evidence.

Satan is a name found in several places in the Bible and many places in popular culture. He had some pseudonyms: the Devil, Lucifer, the Deceiver, the Accuser, Beelzebub, among others. I would like to deal with the question of what is this being. We will only touch on such tangential questions as what is he like, what can he do, and where is he.

Let’s start with a prominent assumption: Satan is just a myth and a way to personify evil. Not many people want Satan to be a real, thinking, active being. Without direct, obvious interaction it is pretty easy to dismiss a real Satan. Even the majority of Christians do that. The intel that we have has to come ultimately out of revelation from God. Otherwise, we are unlikely to know. While Satan isn’t a primary theme of Scripture, he shows up more than you might think. The context is always personal. It does not seem to be talking about evil showing up as a concept. Is it mythical? Suspend that thought for moment.

To get at what Satan actually is, first we must see where he can be present. Frequently, Satan is depicted as being in Heaven, like in the challenge to God to test Job (Job 1:7). He is also shows up on Earth, like in the Garden of Eden and others. He does seem to be able to either disguise himself or to occupy a human being (2 Corinthians 11:14, Luke 22:3). With that information I would like us to consider a passage that doesn’t use “Satan” by name.

11 Moreover, the word of the Lord came to me: 12 “Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord God:

“You were the signet of perfection,
    full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
    every precious stone was your covering,
sardius, topaz, and diamond,
    beryl, onyx, and jasper,
sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle;
    and crafted in gold were your settings
    and your engravings.
On the day that you were created
    they were prepared.
14 You were an anointed guardian cherub.
    I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God;
    in the midst of the stones of fire you walked.
15 You were blameless in your ways
    from the day you were created,
    till unrighteousness was found in you.
16 In the abundance of your trade
    you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned;
so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God,
    and I destroyed you, O guardian cherub,
    from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Your heart was proud because of your beauty;
    you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground;
    I exposed you before kings,
    to feast their eyes on you.
18 By the multitude of your iniquities,
    in the unrighteousness of your trade
    you profaned your sanctuaries;
so I brought fire out from your midst;
    it consumed you,
and I turned you to ashes on the earth
    in the sight of all who saw you.
19 All who know you among the peoples
    are appalled at you;
you have come to a dreadful end
    and shall be no more forever.”

Ezekiel 28:11-19 (ESV)

So is this lament about Satan or the King of Tyre at Ezekiel’s time? I think the answer is “yes”. Satan either disguised himself or possessed a person and was the King of Tyre. I say this because much of this story could not apply to a normal person and it then gives part of Satan’s backstory. The end (v.18b-19) could apply to Satan as manifested as the King. It could also be prophetic of Satan’s ultimate fate.

What does it tell us? That Satan is a cherub. Cherub’s are not fat, little, baby angels that dispense toilet paper. The word means “living one”. Ezekiel uses that term in Ezekiel 1 as he describes the creatures that accompany God. It is also picked up in Revelation 4. In Isaiah’s vision of heaven in Isaiah 6, he uses the term “seraphim” or “burning ones”. This is just how they look to Isaiah. They are clearly the same creatures: four faces, four to six wings, what looks like eyes on their wings. In fact cherubim have wings, angels are never said to have wings; but it seems impossible to get people or AI to get that popular depiction out of their heads. Cherubim and Seraphim are synonyms. They are not angels. This is very restricted club. A limited creation by God. There seems to be just four in Isaiah, Ezekiel and Revelation. Satan would make a fifth.

Was or is Satan nasty looking? No, very beautiful, at least at first. Satan wasn’t evil from the start either. He was a creature of freewill and invented rebellion against God. It is important to note that Satan isn’t an equivalent of God in power, but just evil, even if he momentarily thought he was. Isaiah 14 has a similar passage. This one nominally against the King of Babylon.

Sheol beneath is stirred up
    to meet you when you come;
it rouses the shades to greet you,
    all who were leaders of the earth;
it raises from their thrones
    all who were kings of the nations.
10 All of them will answer
    and say to you:
‘You too have become as weak as we!
    You have become like us!’
11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol,
    the sound of your harps;
maggots are laid as a bed beneath you,
    and worms are your covers.

12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
    O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
    you who laid the nations low!
13 You said in your heart,
    ‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
    I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
    in the far reaches of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
    I will make myself like the Most High.’
15 But you are brought down to Sheol,
    to the far reaches of the pit.

Isaiah 14:9-15 (ESV)

While this passage could easily be understood as describing the delusional fantasies of the King of Babylon, it also could be describing a Satan possessed man. The human King of Babylon ends up in Sheol (you can search above for “Sheol” in this blog), but a bit a Satan’s backstory is revealed. He thought he could be God. Is that naïveté, stupidity, or pride? Cherubim seem to have extraordinary powers, but they are no where near God in that category. Satan is not the evil equivalent of Jesus either as the Mormons proclaim.

In Revelation 12, Satan is cast to Earth and banished from Heaven in connection with the victory of Jesus. We do not have a comprehensive report on what he can or cannot do. What pushes him out the realm of myth for me is not only the consistent talk all through Scripture of Satan being an actual, created being; but it is also the horrid history of mankind.

Humans are capable of great evil all by ourselves, but I doubt that we would reach the depths that we have gone without significant outside help. Satan can possess, manifest and influence with great effectiveness. It would not surprise me if the nastiest characters in human history were either Satan in disguise, possessed by Satan, or under extreme influence. I don’t think evil could hold together as a system, movement, or institution the way that it has without such help.

Am I being superstitious or just ignorant of our capacity for evil? Again, I defer to Scripture. Society has swung from finding Satan under every rock to the opposite extreme of dismissing his existence. The truth is likely in between.

God’s Declaration In Isaiah 66

The content discusses the prophetic insights of Isaiah, emphasizing accurate predictions concerning Jesus and His significance beyond Israel. It highlights themes of eternal life and the New Earth, expressing God’s promise to reach all nations. The conclusion warns of the consequences for those rejecting Jesus, presenting a stark contrast to the hope provided in faith.

Looks into the future within the Old Testament are common. That is what prophecy is. We are living far enough in the future from the time of Isaiah that almost everything in it we can examine through hindsight. Almost.

Isaiah had warnings for the people of Israel and for the surrounding nations. It has all come true to my knowledge. It is so accurate that skeptics conclude that Isaiah had to be written after the fact, but there is no proof of this. Isaiah also spoke a lot about the coming of Jesus: virgin birth, living in Galilee, heir of David, widely rejected by the Jews, put through a judgment process where He did not defend himself, crucified for the salvation of others, and buried with the rich. They would be impossible or undesirable events to stage.

Toward the end of Isaiah there is a large and confusing section about the New Earth which is still future even to us. Check out my take on this section here: https://afterdeathsite.com/2022/05/24/wrestling-with-isaiah-65/

Then there are the final verses of the last chapter. It speaks about some stuff that is in our rear-view mirror and some that is not. It starts like this:

18 “For I know their works and their thoughts, and the time is coming to gather all nations and tongues. And they shall come and shall see my glory, 19 and I will set a sign among them. And from them I will send survivors to the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, who draw the bow, to Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands far away, that have not heard my fame or seen my glory. And they shall declare my glory among the nations.

Isaiah 66:18-19 (ESV)

It is intriguing (to me) to ponder what constituted the right time to send Jesus to fulfill the Law and create an opening for people to have eternal life with God starting with Heaven and then later adding the New Earth. With this event comes a spreading out of knowledge about the God who encountered Israel for millennia, the events around Jesus’ life, and the promise of eternal life. God didn’t keep His promise within the borders of a chosen people. He opened the doors to everyone starting most likely 33AD. His description of “the nations” is strange to us, but must have been well known to the contemporaries of Isaiah. “They” in verse 19 must be the early disciples. The communication of God’s actions and the promise of eternal life continues with the disciples of Jesus today all around the world.

20 And they shall bring all your brothers from all the nations as an offering to the Lord, on horses and in chariots and in litters and on mules and on dromedaries, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, says the Lord, just as the Israelites bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the Lord. 21 And some of them also I will take for priests and for Levites, says the Lord.

Isaiah 66:20-21 (ESV)

Not only was it surprise to hear that God would reach out to other nations, but an even bigger surprise that some of them would be used like the priests and Levites. This chosen group served in the temple as their sole occupation. They were chosen because of the faithfulness of one clan during the Exodus. In the future this would be opened up. I am such a person.

Another surprise is that these saved foreigners would be “your brothers”. This is not a promise to gather the dispersed Jewish people but rather to gather the elect from every nation. These are people whom God can foresee that He will be able to reach. Not everyone will embrace the promise of Jesus. This is sadly observable. Why? I’m not sure the cause or causes. But some will.

The weird modes of transportation are interesting too. I have never brought somebody to church on a dromedary. But this isn’t transportation to a place exactly. This is being involved in diverse ways in people’s lives so that they are connected to Jesus and when we all move past Judgment Day and to the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21-22), we will be like a grain offering that makes God very happy. The New Jerusalem is a place. We just help bring people to Jesus.

“For as the new heavens and the new earth
    that I make
shall remain before me, says the Lord,
    so shall your offspring and your name remain.
23 From new moon to new moon,
    and from Sabbath to Sabbath,
all flesh shall come to worship before me,
declares the Lord.

Isaiah 66:22-23 (ESV)

Eternal life with God is just that–eternal. That is the consistent message of the rest of Scripture. This passage speaks of the permanence of the New Heavens and New Earth, the offspring of the people of faith within Israel, and their name. Part of our experience in Heaven and the New Earth will be worship. Don’t relate that to times you were bored in church. It is also notable that it is “all flesh”. Humans aren’t complete as a disembodied spirit. Paul calls that being “naked” (2 Corinthians 5). We will have a Heavenly Body and a resurrected Earthly body. Worship will be an immersive and positive experience. Everyone will do it. Everyone who is saved that is.

24 “And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

I don’t think that we will make it a part of our eternal routine to observe “dead bodies”. The Bible says that everybody (saved and not) will be a part of the resurrection of our earthly bodies. While this may seem like an amazing and hopeful moment, those who stand judgment bearing their own sin rather than the righteousness we receive from Jesus will find their resurrected bodies are not indestructible. Malachi 4 speaks about them being turned to ash. That will be observable on Judgment Day, probably not after it.

The spirit of a damned person then experiences the ultimate consequence for sin that was completely avoidable. By rejecting Jesus they allowed themselves to bear the full consequence of the Law. They will experience an unending decay (the worm does not die), a fire that is never quenched, be abhorrent to themselves and others, and forsaken by God.

For my part, I wish this ended at verse 23. I can’t deny verse 24 and others like it. Jesus says many will enter destruct and few into life. I hope those relative terms do not mean like they sound. It sure sounds like the majority will experience verse 24.

What Is Hell Fire?

The post contemplates the concept of Hell, defining it as a place of eternal suffering for those without Jesus’ atonement. It explores metaphors used in scripture, such as fire and Hades, to convey the nature of divine judgment. Ultimately, it emphasizes the profound severity of separation from God’s presence in Hell.

It’s a name of a missile, right? It is, but I want to contemplate something else. First, let’s establish a meaning for the word, “Hell”. When I speak of Hell, I am talking about the final place of eternal judgment. It is a post-Judgment Day actual place. It is a place of suffering that includes all who have rebelled against God and have an eternal nature (they don’t just cease to exist) and do not have Jesus’ atonement for their sins. It includes people, Satan, and demons. Jesus uses the word “Gehenna” to refer to it. Revelation calls it the “Lake of Fire”.

Fire, as we have experienced it, is a rapid oxidation resulting in an exothermic reaction. Light a match, that is what is happening. Is that what is happening in Hell, or on Judgment Day (1 Corinthians 3:10f, 2 Peter 3), or even in Sheol? Just a lot of combustion? I doubt it.

When the Bible needs to introduce a concept to us for which we have no frame of reference, it has to use something we know as a metaphor. Fire, as we have experienced it, is similar to the things mentioned above in some way, but it is not necessarily oxidation. I could do this with something in our physical world to help someone with no knowledge of it. I could call nuclear fission a fire. They are both hot.

Let’s start with Sheol/Hades. If you are not familiar with these terms, type them in the search box in the top right of this page. In Luke 16:19-31, Jesus tells the account of the Rich Man and Lazarus. Both are in Hades but one on the “good” side of the chasm and one on the bad side. The Rich Man describes the bad side this way:

24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’

Luke 16:24 (ESV)

Maybe it’s combustion, does it matter? It helps to understand that while all of these use “fire” or “flames”, they are not the same thing and this adds to our understanding of what will happen. Hopefully, we never experience what the Rich Man is experiencing. Jesus is the way to not experience it. For me, it raises the questions of where Sheol is and what is a person’s nature within it. I think it is obvious that Sheol/Hades is not in the center of the Earth as the ancients imagined it. Volcanic activity was just an available metaphor. If it is other dimensional, then do we have a body for Sheol that experiences heat. If this is just their spirit. What can a spirit experience? It suffers to the intensity of being in the scorching heat of a volcanic chamber.

How about the destruction of the universe in 2 Peter 3?

7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

2 Peter 3:7,10 (ESV)

The destruction of the universe does sound like a nuclear-type reaction. If fact, during the Cold War, people read this as a nuclear destruction of our own doing. Even nuclear reactions leave molecular remains of slightly less mass. If this verse is being that technical, then this “fire” may go further than even a nuclear fission process.

How about this fire?

13 each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.

1 Corinthians 3:13 (ESV)

This fire doesn’t consume anything. It tests and reveals the historical actions of one’s life. More like the Goblet of Fire in Harry Potter. Here the point of comparison may be appearance, just like “tongues of fire” resting the disciples heads on the day of Pentecost. There is some discomfort with this. This is the judgment of our deeds. While not the determining factor in our salvation, it is a probing evaluation of life which will be less than perfect and somewhat embarrassing.

Finally, we get to Hell:

14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:14-15 (ESV)

This is the fire most to be feared. Yet, it is a fire that doesn’t seem to consume anything. Neither combustion nor fission, it deals out eternal suffering. The same questions I applied above to Sheol/Hades apply here. Where is it? Most likely some other dimensional plane that is not connected to the New Universe nor Heaven. Is it just the same as Hades? Here I would refer to what Jesus experienced on the cross to spare us from this fate. He is forsaken by the Father.

The presence of God is a very complicated thing. There is the full blown presence of Heaven at present, but even in Sheol/Hades there is some element of His presence (see Psalm 139). Now Hades is dumped into Hell. Is this somehow completely forsaken and removed entirely from the presence of God? What happens to any part of reality in that situation? Do even spirits burn? The point of contact is clearly the suffering connected with a burn. Is that just the best one can do to describe what happens in a relatable way? The resurrected body, which all receive if briefly (Daniel 12) and is referred to as indestructible (1 Corinthians 13) does prove to be destructible for the damned (Malachi 4). In Hell as person does not have this body. Stripped down in their nature to probably just the spirit, Satan, rebellious angels, and the damned among mankind experience what it is like to be forever out of the presence of God. I don’t care to have a fully relatable experience to this.

Will We Judge Angels?

Paul addresses issues within the Corinthian congregation, particularly their practice of suing one another in pagan courts. He argues that Christians are more qualified to adjudicate disputes, referencing scriptural support for their future role as judges. This indicates a vindication for believers who suffer for Christ, emphasizing their authority in the coming Judgment Day.

The congregation that Paul writes to in Corinth had a bunch of problems. Some of their doctrinal understanding was bad. Some of their practices were worse. One practice that Paul took issue with was their bringing lawsuits against each other in pagan civil court. He insists that Christians are more equipped to be just in their judgments than the pagan judicial system. He then says this:

2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life!

1 Corinthians 6:2-3 (ESV)

When we think of Judgment Day, we rightly think of ourselves being judged. For someone saved by Christ there is no concern of being damned at this point. Yet, there is still a judgment of the works of our lives. Read more about that here:https://afterdeathsite.com/2025/01/07/will-judgment-day-recount-all-our-deeds/. We don’t think of ourselves being on the other side of the bench. Yet Paul speaks of our judging the world as if it is a well-known and obvious fact.

There are other places that speak of humans being placed in a position of being a judge. In Revelation 20:4 it says:

4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed.

Revelation 20:4 (ESV)

This verse sounds much more restrictive in who will be judging than Paul’s quote above. I would add to it the following:

28 Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 19:28 (ESV)

In a world without sin, there is very little need for government and possibly nothing for judgment. If you look at the Greek words translated as “judge”, they are all a form of the Greek “krinos”. This is normally the function of a judge in a court. In Matthew it may have a broader sense of ruling like the Judges did before Saul became king. In either of Revelation 20:4 or Matthew 19:28, it doesn’t seem to apply to everyone. Paul may be saying that humans will have a role in oversight in the New Earth that will cover both Jews who are saved and even angels.

Perhaps what is in view is a Judgment Day activity. Satan and the fallen angels would be judged on that Day. The Twelve Tribes of Israel would be judged. There isn’t a great degree of discernment necessary, because those unconnected to Christ are still in their sin. The judgment is clear. Being put in the position of judge is a sort of vindication for those who suffered with Christ–specifically the Twelve, and the Martyrs, and maybe even you and me.

Declining to Our Physical Departure

Aging can bring physical decline and loss, leading to a struggle with self-identity and health. Yet, faith in God provides hope. Through Jesus Christ, believers can embrace eternal life beyond death. This perspective encourages acceptance of life’s purposes, focusing on the glory promised in Heaven, making the aging process less daunting.

Nobody likes aging. It doesn’t hit you that this is your problem until usually your 30’s (a little) and with every decade that passes it gets worse. When our physical decline results in actual loss, we struggle to cope. It seems that suddenly we cannot eat like we used to without consequence. We used to be so attractive and now we are attractive “for our age”, which is often the same as not attractive. Eventually we cannot run without pain. We forget stuff. We can’t sleep or we sleep all the time. We are no longer competent to drive. We are no longer safe to live independently. It is a dark decline.

I would like to give you a little perspective that I hope helps. We are created to be eternal creatures. Our bodies age, decline and die; but that is because of “sin”. I’m not saying that we would necessarily live longer or healthier if we behaved better. I am saying that we are all genetically altered from the way God originally created human beings. The result is that our current bodies must die. This would create a hopeless situation for us if not for the fact that God wants us to have eternal life with Him, and has done something about it.

Jesus Christ is God’s Son who became human for a very specific purpose. He kept God’s Law perfectly, which is what God requires for people who would be with Him eternally. He also absorbed the worst consequence of sin on the cross. He was forsaken by His father, which would be our fate. Now we can be “connected” to Jesus through God creating faith in us and Jesus “baptizing us into His death”. That phrase means that God creates some sort of “supernatural” connection to us where Jesus’ life and Jesus’ death are ours. When we are “in Christ” the only thing left for us to do is to go through physical death. The rest of the way to a glorious, happy, eternal existence has been given as a gift from Jesus.

With that as a backdrop, declining toward death shouldn’t have to be so bad. Yes, it still hurts. Yes, you feel loss. But you are heading toward something great. This impacts certain decisions and attitudes.

First, if you are facing any challenge, especially a medical challenge, you can tell yourself that it is only temporary and if it ends in death, you will actually gain from it.

You don’t have to insist that the medical community do everything possible to keep you alive. Your goal is to naturally die. Their efforts would probably only give you an extended painful, useless, modest extension on this life. You don’t even want that.

Rather than be always looking back at the “good old days”, you can be forward thinking toward the glory of what God has prepared for you in Heaven and ultimately also a New Earth.

You can understand your purpose in life as something that is dynamic but always God-given. When you retire, you move from one purpose to another that is God-given. As you lose independence, you may lose one purpose but acquire another. Life is for accomplishing whatever God has prepared for you and then you get to experience real life.

This is hard to embrace, but when you study what God has promised us you develop a genuine excitement for it. That is what this blog is all about. My life matters, my aging and decline matters, and my passing away matters. I am heading toward an increasing glory.

16 So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day. 17 For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, 18 as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.

5 For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 Corinthians 4:16-5:1 (ESV)

Accepting the Reality of Eternal Existence

For some there is no doubt. At least verbally. We will go on beyond our death. These people tend to error on the side of thinking everybody has something good waiting for them. For others, there is a great deal of doubt. We usually don’t get a preview. People who have a Near Death Experience are almost all in on eternal life. The rest of us just see the impact of death on our flesh, and it is sobering.

Certainty that we die and then disappear, is equally hard to maintain. Many are very bold about it until death looms near. Then they are not quite as enthusiastic about the prospect and begin to hope for more.

Certainty is not the same thing as faith. Faith is several things. It is first a Holy Spirit bypass of whatever keeps us from being receptive to God because of our sinful condition. Then it is a God-produced connection between us and Christ. Then that connection produces a growing trust in all of God’s promises, His capabilities, and His character. It also generates certainty in the reality of eternal life and what will happen to you in your eternal existence.

The power of God’s Word is a driving force in having certainty in eternal life.

“Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. 2 In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?

John 14:1-2 (ESV)

Who has reliable information on this topic? Even Near Death Experiences could be an illusion of a dying brain or a delusion created by Satan. Jesus raised people from the dead, was raised from the dead himself, and demonstrated that He was God through clear and observable miracles. Furthermore, His character was on display for all around him. For us, it is the power of the Word with the in-person accounts that give us the ability to “believe” in both Father and Son in this regard.

God could have created us to live and to die and be gone. He has nothing to gain by lying to us about this fact of our nature. Jesus says in the above passage that He would have told us if eternal life in Heaven was not on the table. It is on the table. That is why Jesus became one of us in the first place.

Our certainty comes with understanding the Gospel and God developing in us a deeper faith through the Word. First, it is our nature to be eternal because we are more than a body. We are a body and soul. I think that you can experience this much. Minimizing our will, memory, all conscious thought to chemical reactions in the brain, does not make sense. If our thoughts were just the product of brain chemistry and electrical activity then we would have no will. We clearly have a will. We are not “meat robots”. That is wrong.

It does take revelation from outside of ourselves to know about things that are beyond our sensory capabilities, beyond death, and probably beyond our space-time. Does the account of Jesus and the revelation that comes with Jesus have any credibility? Seek out the arguments. They are hard to dismiss unless you have a bias and want to dismiss them. God tells us what comes next. This whole blog covers it. There is eternal life (eternal existence with God) and eternal death (not non-existence but exile from God as in Hell). Eternal life is God’s gift predicated on what Jesus has already accomplished . God has proven to be trustworthy.

The only qualification to the certainty that we can have is that people can fall away. I must respect the theoretical possibility that I will abandon God’s gift. God gives plenty resources enough to never fall away, but people still manage it. I don’t doubt because I know that God is enough. When actually facing my final hour, there is no need to look at myself and ask if I have done enough. Jesus is enough. I don’t do anything. Therefore I am certain.

Sheol As a Waiting Room

Sheol is a Hebrew term for the waiting place of the dead, distinct from Hell, and appears in the Old Testament. Both the righteous and unrighteous go there. The understanding of Sheol is often obscured by translations. Some believe it offers a second chance for salvation post-Judgment Day, but interpretations vary widely.

Many people are not aware of what Sheol is, so first let me give you a quick primer. Sheol is a Hebrew term used 65 times in the Old Testament. Its Greek equivalent “Hades” shows up another 10. It is not a reference to “Hell” as most people think of Hell. It is more the waiting room for Hell. It is not “purgatory” either. Though I would bet that an ancient misunderstanding of Sheol led to the development of the idea of purgatory.

Sheol has escaped many people’s understanding thanks to some lousy translating. Many versions of the English Bible cover over the word by translating it as “the grave” or “the pit”. This is garbage. Sheol is a place and a proper noun. Leave it as is.

In the Old Testament everyone expected to go to Sheol whether they were considered righteous or unrighteous. It was the place of the dead. Jesus’ account of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19f) gives us the best glimpse into Sheol as it was.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried.23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

Luke 16:22-23 (ESV)

Notice that both the rich man and Lazarus are in Hades (Sheol) but in significantly different conditions. Lazarus is in “the bosom” of Abraham, and the rich man is in torment. He explains the torment as being because of fire. Thus the confusion with the post-Judgement Day “lake of fire”, which we think of as Hell.

Lazarus, Abraham, and the rest of the Old Testament righteous are waiting. For what? For Jesus to complete atonement for their sins on the cross and for Jesus to complete the Law in a way that they did not with His life. Timing actually matters. You didn’t suffer in this part of Sheol. The Roman Catholic Church refers to this place as “The Limbo of the Fathers”. Others prefer “Abraham’s bosom”. I like “the good neighborhood of Sheol. It reminds you where it is. What did they do there (some for millennia)? Don’t know.

When Jesus had completed His work, He set them free.

As for you, because of the blood of my covenant with you,
    I will free your prisoners from the waterless pit.
12 Return to your fortress, you prisoners of hope;
    even now I announce that I will restore twice as much to you.

Zechariah 9:11-12 (ESV)

You can see that they were rewarded for their patience and faith. Want to read more about Jesus’ descent into Sheol read here: https://afterdeathsite.com/2017/04/04/christs-descent-into-hell-part-4/

People like the rich man were/are waiting too. Without the forgiveness of Christ you are stuck in the bad neighborhood of Sheol until Judgment Day. Could actual Hell be any worse? Read this: https://afterdeathsite.com/2023/11/14/how-is-sheol-different-than-hell/

Those who now die connected to Jesus will never go to the “waiting room”. Eternal life in Heaven begins immediately.

Is there any hope once you find yourself in the bad neighborhood of Sheol. Many people and denominations say “no”. To be honest there is not a lot of Scriptural information on the topic. Those who say no are depending on one verse, which I think they misapply. It is Hebrews 9:27:

27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Hebrews 9:27-28 (ESV)

You can see that the context is about how many times Christ is sacrificed. The answer is one. Similarly, how many lives do we live before judgment–one. It does not say the final judgment is immediate. There is the waiting room. The one Bible passage that suggests some measure of hope is 1 Peter 4:6:

6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

1 Peter 4:6 (ESV)

“The gospel was preached to those now dead” is not a great translation. It is more like “for indeed the dead ones were evangelized (declared the good message)”. The context of “the dead ones” is found in 1 Peter 3:20. They are the disobedient people killed by Noah’s flood. They waited in the bad neighborhood of Sheol until Jesus declared the promise of salvation to them. Then some, if not all, were made alive to God.

How far does this second chance go? I don’t know. I hope far. It is clear that many make it through the waiting room all the way to their appointment at Judgment Day. Hell won’t be empty, and that is regrettable since what Christ did was big enough for all.