Tag: Witch of Endor

Do Humans Have a Body in Hell and Sheol?

I bet you were lying in bed wondering about this very question. I grant you that it is an obscure issue for which we have little information but it is a parallel to the important issue of whether we have a body in Heaven (to which I say yes), and it connects to same verse in Scripture, which is 2 Corinthians 5:1f.

5 For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling, 3 if indeed by putting it on we may not be found naked. 4 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.

2 Corinthians 5:1-4(ESV)

Our body that we have during this life is a “tent”. It houses our spirit, but it is a legitimate part of what we are. That is why there is a resurrection of the body. Paul says that we do not wish to be “unclothed”, which means without a body. Can such a situation even exist?

The Bible does not say where Heaven, Sheol, or the final Lake of Fire actually are. The ancients conceived of Sheol as the center of the Earth, and Heaven as being outside the furthest reach of the universe; but that does not make it so. Recent work in theoretical physics uses the concept of other dimensions. Albeit these dimensions are not observable because they are very small. There is no constraining reason why they must be small. What if they are unobservable just because we are constrained to live and observe in only three spatial dimensions. What if other dimensions do exist, explaining some of the odd behavior of gravity and quantum physics, but actually define the space of parallel universes. These universes would not have to be in lock-step with ours because they are only connected at the quantum level. This could define the space of Heaven, Sheol, the Abyss, and possibly Hell.

Going with this very unprovable theory, that would be why an “earthly” body is Earthly. It only can move in the dimensions of this space-time. And why a “heavenly” is Heavenly. It moves in Heaven’s dimensions. Could Sheol be its own space-time with a Sheol appropriate body. Not sure of the adjective for that one.

Descriptions of Sheol (please use the Search box if you are not familiar with this term to find posts about it) seem very physical. For example the rich man in Luke 16:

23 and in Hades (same as Sheol), being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’

Luke 16:23-24 (ESV)

Flame, water, cool, tongue all seem very physical. This would also connect to the general resurrection of the dead. The damned would need an earthly body to stand before God at Judgment Day on Earth. It would also connect to the destruction of those Earthly bodies:

“For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, when all the arrogant and all evildoers will be stubble. The day that is coming shall set them ablaze, says the Lord of hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But for you who fear my name, the sun of righteousness shall rise with healing in its wings. You shall go out leaping like calves from the stall. 3 And you shall tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet, on the day when I act, says the Lord of hosts.

Malachi 4:1-3 (ESV)

They won’t be needing those bodies where they are going next. Is the final Lake of Fire (i.e. Gehenna or Hell) also a “bodily experience”? Maybe it is not even connected to our multi-dimensional reality. Maybe “forsakeness” means total disconnection from creation? I think that is an interesting and disturbing thought.

One final thought. Paul speaks about being “unclothed”. The spirit of Samuel is “raised up” from the good neighborhood of Sheol by the Witch of Endor (1 Samuel 28:13-15). He seems “unclothed” in the bodily sense. He appears “wrapped in a robe”. What about ghosts? I don’t know how they would fit in the model given us by Scripture. Are they figments of a person’s imagination? Are they demonic? Are they people “brought up” from Sheol and left here? Are they just part of a tired sit-com (I prefer the British version)? The disciples thought they were seeing a ghost when Jesus came to them walking on the water. From where did such an idea come? I don’t know.

Again, most of this post is unproveable and unstated by Scripture verbatim. But it does make sense to me. I hope you find it thought provoking and may be only find through experience about the Heavenly body and your Resurrected body.

Biblical Stories of Being Raised from the Dead

The Easter story celebrates Jesus’ unique resurrection, contrasting it with other instances of being raised from the dead, like Lazarus and others. While Lazarus and others experienced repair or temporary returns, Jesus’ resurrection signifies a transformative experience, promising believers a future spiritual body and a restored existence in Heaven and Earth.

On Easter we celebrate Jesus being raised from the dead, but the Easter story is not the only story about being raised from the dead. The Easter story is unique, however, because Jesus isn’t just raised, He is resurrected. This is a very different thing. Perhaps in the course of your lifetime you might be clinically dead. You may even experience leaving your body. But modern medicine will bring you back. You will not come back as resurrected. You will merely be repaired, at least enough to get you by for a while.

The second most famous story is the raising of Lazarus in John 11. Jesus intentionally drags His feet on going to help His sick friend. The raising of Lazarus is going to be a powerful sign of what God can do. By the time Jesus arrives at the scene, Lazarus has been in the tomb for four days. Everybody expects physical decay to have begun. Has it? Not beyond the ability of Jesus to fix it. Where was Lazarus these past four days? Technically, Lazarus dies (the first time) before the atonement for sins is complete. I would expect that he had a brief stay in the good neighborhood of Sheol (aka The Bosum of Abraham or The Limbo of the Fathers)https://afterdeathsite.com/2021/05/11/an-expectation-of-sheol/ . Would that be upsetting to be recalled? I am not sure about the quality of existence in this space. It is a sort of waiting room for Heaven and may not be that different than living here. Lazarus was no doubt honored to be such a powerful part of the ministry of Jesus. There was one definite downside:

9 When the large crowd of the Jews learned that Jesus was there, they came, not only on account of him but also to see Lazarus, whom he had raised from the dead. 10 So the chief priests made plans to put Lazarus to death as well, 11 because on account of him many of the Jews were going away and believing in Jesus.

John 12:9-11 (ESV)

We are not given follow-up on this story. I would have to assume that Lazarus was later murdered. He would go through the process of dying twice, which tells me that it is not so bad on the relative scale of things. Lazarus’ resurrection is still pending.

Other people beside Jesus were given the ability to raise the dead. Elijah in 1 Kings 17:17f raises the son of a widow, and Peter in Acts 9 raises a beloved woman (Dorcas/Tabitha). The power of repair work can be given as a spiritual gift. Both are powerful signs. It is hard to say where the boy was for he was neither a Jew nor necessarily under grace. He may have come from the bad neighborhood of Sheol, and would have been overjoyed to get out. Tabitha would have been in Heaven. She had been dead for hours. Like Lazarus, I’m sure she was willing to fulfill God’s purpose in her existence. Also, like Lazarus she would die again.

Jesus raises the daughter of Jairus. This is similar to the boy raised by Elijah in the sense that the grief of parents is uniquely difficult. She is dead for less than a hour probably. It would be more like Near Death Experiences done by medical means. People who experience NDE’s of Heaven don’t want to return, but they continue to live with an excitement of getting back to Heaven.

One last non-resurrection “return”. The prophet Samuel is summoned by non-acceptable occultic means through the Witch of Endor (1 Samuel 28). Samuel is not pleased. Samuel says that he was “disturbed” and “brought up”. It doesn’t seem to be in physical form, so he remained dead but could communicate his displeasure.

What is different between being “repaired” and raised, Near Death Experiences, occultic summoning, and resurrection? A lot. We will receive a heavenly body for heavenly realms, but we are not complete until we receive a resurrected earthly body. This won’t happen until Judgment Day. The resurrected body exceeds our current body in every way. Paul describes it this way:

42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:42-44 (ESV)

https://afterdeathsite.com/2024/12/10/pondering-the-properties-of-our-resurrected-body/Jesus was raised with all this plus being the incarnate Son of God, so the properties of His physical being are beyond our knowledge and all comparison.

While we won’t have some of the unique properties of Jesus, we will be vastly different than today, able to enjoy a restored Earth and Heaven. Easter joy is a celebration of a major mile post of the plan of God for our salvation. It also is a time to ponder what comes next for those who belong to Jesus.

Honoring the Elders

When I am bored sometimes, I scroll through Instagram to find an interesting video. One caught my eye yesterday. It showed a man bringing out a mummified human from a grass hut in central New Guinea. Having a mummified descendent in their home was a way for this tribe to “honor their elders.”

I clearly come from a different culture. I wasn’t that thrilled about having my parents over for a long time when they were alive. 

Honoring elders is a large part of many cultures. It is understandable why that would be. Death often creates a great sense of loss. Incorporating communication and other ritual that involves the deceased keeps them emotionally close. If you depended on the knowledge of an older generation, you might seek to have a knowledge stream continue after death. Finally, if your sense of having a relationship with God is very vague, continuing a relationship with dead ancestors might be a substitute.

Certain cultures may have stumbled or were presented with ways to communicate with the dead. Seances and Ouija are more contemporary methods of communication with the dead. The Bible also records efforts of the Canaanites to do this and there is the story of the Witch of Endor (1 Samuel 28).

Whether out of grief, need, or a sense of responsibility, honoring your deceased elders needs to have definite limits. Great danger lies in crossing the line. God warned the Israelites not to copy the practices of the people of Canaan.

9 “When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer 11 or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, 12 for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you.

Deuteronomy 18:9-12 (ESV)

Many people today would scoff at the suggestion that these things are even possible. But think about the following:

  1. The dead are not non-existent. Even the damned are somewhere.
  2. Creating communication with any of the dead before Jesus, or those who are still in Sheol today, is a matter of bridging the separation between Sheol and Earth.
  3. While there are no natural ways of doing this, it appears that a form of “spiritual gift” can do this.
  4. Since God forbids it, this spiritual gift comes from the power of Satan. (Pharoah’s “magicians” were able to copy Moses’ sign of turning a staff into a snake and also the plague of frogs)

Many so-called mediums are just clever con-artists. That doesn’t negate the possibility that darker means are not legitimate. But one has to consider whether attempting to exercise such a power “honors” or “dishonors” our elders. 

Disobeying God is never honorable. Why would God forbid a connection that would ease our grief? We are not privy to this answer, but several theories come to mind. First, are we treating elders like God? God will act on our behalf, dead elders can’t. God hears our prayers, dead elders can’t. Death is a consequence of sin. It is a temporary or permanent separation we must accept. God is the source of information about life after death. Information sought from dead elders may be misinformation from the evil one. 

Playing around with or seriously using purported means of communicating with the dead also seems to expose people to more serious control of the demonic.

The most famous case in the U.S. was the source of the book and movie, The Exorcist. The event happening in 1949 in Maryland and was documented by the Washington Post. A boy and his spiritist aunt played around with a Ouija board to attempt communication with the dead. When the aunt died, the grieving boy attempted the use of the same method. What happened instead was a terrifying case of supernatural events and possession that finally ended in a hospital in St. Louis. The location of their home in Cottage City, MD continued to be surrounded by horrifying phenomena. A woman was found decaying in a plastic bag nearby. A man went crazy and decapitated his mother a few doors away. Also nearby, children were arrested for hacking off the limbs of their parents. The forces of Satan are not our friends.

There is one other reason to temper communication attempts with our dead. We may not wish to hear it. Heaven is awesome. When we die in Christ, we are swept away in joy and love and probably think very little about the life we have left. Nor do we have to. God is on the job to help those still on Earth.

What would be appropriate honoring of the dead? Speak well of them. Imagine them in their new glorious state. Flowers and visiting the grave is good. Talking to them might be therapeutic for you. Don’t imagine that they are birds at your feeder (I don’t know where that idea comes from). More importantly, honor your elders while they are here with you. Make sure they know and believe that eternal life comes from Jesus’ life and death. Then honor God with your life. Over-dependency on people both in life and especially in death is a bad thing. 

How Is Sheol Different than Hell?

Many, if not most people, have a simplistic view of what the Bible tells us about life after death. Simply put they believe in Heaven and Hell. One of the goals of this blog is to help people realize that two events change this model: the death and resurrection of Jesus and Judgment Day.

Prior to Jesus, the Old Testament people knew of two things regarding their existence after death. The knew that there would eventually be a bodily resurrection of dead followed by either everlasting life in a New Earth or everlasting contempt somewhere. (Dan. 12:2, Isaiah 65) This information can be traced as early as Job, which is likely the oldest book in the Bible.

For I know that my Redeemer lives,
    and at the last he will stand upon the earth.
26 And after my skin has been thus destroyed,
    yet in my flesh I shall see God,
27 whom I shall see for myself,
    and my eyes shall behold, and not another.
    My heart faints within me!

Job 19:25-27 (ESV)

The Old Testament people are aware that Heaven exists, but it is never promised as a destination for them after death. Instead, the Old Testament people had an expectation of going to Sheol (the place of the dead). This is not the same as the grave. Some translations of the Bible botch this and then note that the Hebrew word is “Sheol” in the footnotes. Sheol is a distinct place of conscious existence.

Sheol seems to be a two-part place. One section is comforting, but not necessarily better than life. The other section is a place of suffering. The New Testament and the Greek translation of the Old Testament (the Septuagint) switch from the word “Sheol” to the Greek “Hades”. These are synonyms. Jesus uses another word “Gehenna”, which is not a synonym. Gehenna refers to the final destination of the damned, the post-Judgment Day lake of fire. This would be my candidate for the English word, Hell.

Getting Hades/Sheol and Gehenna confused is pretty easy to do. They do share certain properties. Darkness, suffering, and fire seem to be a part of both. One description of Hades includes “where the worm does not die”. I don’t think this is talking about the decay of our corpse in the grave. This seems to be part of the suffering of Sheol.

Finding differences is harder. I can come up with only three within the scant information we are given.

  1. It appears that it is possible, but not acceptable, to communicate with the dead in Sheol. In the story of the Witch of Endor (1 Samual 28), Saul summons the prophet Samuel from the dead through the forbidden skills of the Witch of Endor. Samuel would have been in the comforting section of Sheol. He doesn’t seem too pleased about it either. This practice must have been a part of pagan Canaanite culture and possible also others. The Jews are strictly forbidden from doing this (Deut. 18:9-13). I would infer from this that those in the suffering section might also have been reachable. Once you are in Gehenna you are unreachable and no one will try. (More on that in a bit.)
  2. A second difference connects to what Jesus did right after his death.

8 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, 20 because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared,

1 Peter 3:18-20a (ESV)

This is where we get Jesus’ “descent into Hell” from the Apostles’ Creed. Here “Hell” is a misleading term. It should be descent into “Sheol” or something to that effect. Originally it was.

What was Jesus trying to do? 1 Peter 4:6 explains it:

6 For this is why the gospel was preached even to those who are dead, that though judged in the flesh the way people are, they might live in the spirit the way God does.

1 Peter 4:6 (ESV)

It certainly sounds like these people, long dead, condemned, held in the prison of Sheol are getting a second chance through the preaching of Christ. Did this ever happen again? Don’t know. Is there another reference to this in Scripture? Nope. Outside of Scripture? Yes, a bunch. It was a favorite theme of the ancient Eastern church.

This leads to the final and most critical difference between Gehenna (Hell) and Sheol.

In Revelation 20:14, Hades/Sheol is thrown in “the lake of fire”/Gehenna/Hell. At that point, post-Judgment Day, they become one thing. It appears to me that the worst part of being damned doesn’t happen until then. At that point God forsakes you.

You are utterly separated from God and all of God’s redeemed forget you. Jesus experienced this for us on the cross. He was forsaken, and even though He knew it was coming, it crushes Him.

45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour. 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

Matthew 27:45-46 (ESV)

This whole topic can remain an academic discussion because Jesus took the suffering for us. If we are baptized in Christ’s name then we are baptized into His death–specifically, this part of His death.

I don’t need to get any closer to Sheol/Hades/Gehenna/the Lake of Fire/ Hell than this.

Communicating With the Dead

Jesus was unequivocal, the people who have physically died still exist. They are just not here:

32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.”

Matthew 22:32 (ESV)

When you lose somebody, especially if it was unexpected, there can be a powerful desire to communicate with them again. We can have questions about their wellbeing, how to survive without them, and possibly how and why they died.

There are also less pure motivations for communicating with the dead. People may think the dead have some sort of profitable knowledge or can provide some sort of assistance to the living. For some it is just the attraction of dark arts or having some form of mastery over death.

Of course, communicating with the dead is impossible. Right? I wouldn’t be so sure. The Old Testament has strong statements against such a practice. Communicating with the dead is one of the reasons that the Canaanites were dispossessed from Palestine in favor of the Jews. Deuteronomy lists their sins and warns the Jews not to follow their example.

“When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer 11 or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, 12 for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you. 13 You shall be blameless before the Lord your God,

Deuteronomy 18:9-13 (ESV)

Abomination is a pretty strong word. Why? The first set of motives listed above are not impure. Part of it is no doubt how this is possible in the first place. This is not using the power of God, nor utilizing something inherent in nature; this is using the power of Satan and his kingdom. As such it is dangerous. It can also be the source of twisted truth. It may also leave a person open to other manifestations of evil, like possession. It would seem that such practices were common in the ancient world and possibly the source of some modestly twisted information about life after death.

Keep in mind that at this time, everybody went to Sheol (for more information) https://afterdeathsite.com/2021/05/11/an-expectation-of-sheol/. This may matter. The righteous were segregated from the unrighteous. The one biblical story about communicating with the dead was communication with the righteous as King Saul summoned the prophet Samuel using the “Witch of Endor” in 1 Samuel 28.

13 The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god coming up out of the earth.” 14 He said to her, “What is his appearance?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe.” And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage.

15 Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul answered, “I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do.” 16 And Samuel said, “Why then do you ask me, since the Lord has turned from you and become your enemy?

1 Samuel 28:13-16 (ESV)

Samuel was not pleased, and the desperate attempt of Saul did not help him.

Some would dismiss this as simply a mythical story and consulting the dead as a form of fraud. Certainly, charlatans exist in this area who are willing to take advantage of peoples’ grief. Another theory is that demons masquerade as the dead. This is not how it is presented in 1 Samuel however.

What about modern-day mediums? Are they just frauds? I expect that most, if not all, are frauds. It may also be possible that a person can have an equivalent to a “spiritual gift” (1 Corinthians 12), but one that is not from God. Using such a service remains forbidden by God.

How should we handle devastating grief? https://wordpress.com/post/afterdeathsite.com/734

First, we need to trust the promises of God about forgiveness through Jesus and eternal life. https://wordpress.com/post/afterdeathsite.com/884 If we are not confident about our loved one being saved, then it is not forbidden to continue to pray for them. In the case of suicide, we need to understand how God’s grace actually works. We do not need to confess our sins as the last thing we do. https://wordpress.com/post/afterdeathsite.com/778

Trusting the matters of life after death to God is the right thing to do and leads to healing. Losing purpose from the loss of relationship is something we can actively pursue. We fill the void in our lives by helping others.

Family In Eternity

I have heard it many times. A person is dying but they are ready. Why? Because they want to see their spouse, child, mother or father. They are eager to see lost family. This is understandable. Our family are usually the people we are closest to and love the most during life. What do we know about the transition to eternal life and family?

One bit of information comes in Matthew 22. The Sadducees are trying to prove logically that the resurrection does not literally exist. They present a scenario where a woman loses her husband without having children. In Jewish law, the brother is to marry the woman and have children. The law served as a social, safety net as there was no government support for widows. In this scenario, the woman survives the death of seven brothers. Surely, the Sadducees argue, the resurrection would create massive family issues as people marry and re-marry during life.

Jesus answers their argument this way:

At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in Heaven.

Matthew 22:30 (ESV)

Some people seize on the wording to say that Jesus is only saying that there won’t be weddings in Heaven. But that loses the context. He is saying that marriages created in this life are only for this life. Other passages support that marriage is a contract that ends with death. That may make you sad or give you relief. No matter how you feel about it, it is a stated fact. That doesn’t mean you won’t know and love the people you know and love now.

We are left to imagine what Jesus means by “they will be like the angels in Heaven”. The implication is that the angels have a very different arrangement than what we have now. Jesus is also talking about “at the resurrection”, so this is post-Judgment Day information and may or may not apply to the period between your death and Judgment Day when you will be exclusively in Heaven.

Some worry that we won’t even recognize each other or remember our former relationships. Here I present you a mixed bag of evidence. The first is Jesus’ resurrected bodily appearances. Sometimes He is not recognizable. Other times He is readily recognizable. Again, this is a resurrected body (so post-JD for us). He is also the Son of God, so this may not even apply to us. Another weird piece of information comes from the story of the Witch of Endor (1 Samuel 28). In this story, Saul utilizes a woman, who knows occultic arts, to raise the Prophet Samuel from Sheol. It works, and Samuel is readily recognizable (and angry).

Near Death Experiences (NDE), for what they are worth, do include at times family who recognize each other and recognize their relationship.

I expect that not only will we recognize our families, but that we will know everyone else as well. Peter, James and John recognized Moses and Elijah without introduction, to our knowledge. I also expect that there will be closeness and relationship that rivals the best family relationships with everyone else. Because of this, the significance of family will fade without the blessing of those who are our family being lessened.

What about family who rejects Jesus? Jesus is not optional when it comes to receiving eternal life. I expect that we can have our losses. 1 Corinthians 7:14 says:

For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

1 Corinthians 7:14 (ESV)

While I would like to believe that this passage says that we are saved in groups, I don’t believe it says that. It only indicates that our unbelieving family have a special priority and source of the Gospel because of us. Jesus indicates that in many cases a person’s enemies because of the Gospel will come from within their family. This is often seen in conversions from other world religions.

So, would not Heaven be diminished if not ruined by a family member who has rejected salvation? We certainly grieve them while on Earth. It would not surprise me if we would briefly grieve them in Heaven. But I expect that loss and even the memory of it to fade in the midst of the glory and love that will envelope us in Heaven.

Will our grief not be re-opened on Judgment Day? Perhaps, but we have this brief description of being in the New Earth:

The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

Isaiah 65:17b (ESV)

I cannot guarantee that everyone in my family will be saved. In fact, I would bet against some who have passed. I would love to be surprised on this matter. All I can do is to be sure to share the Gospel while I can. I don’t want to feel like I left critical matters of salvation unspoken. The rest is in God’s hands.