Month: July 2023

The Cup of God’s Wrath

In studying the topic of existence after death in the Bible, we would all much rather focus on Heaven and the New Earth. It is easy to go into complete denial about God’s judgment. But information about God’s judgment is there for a reason. We should know it. In this article, I will focus on just three verses and they are frightening.

Revelation 14:9-11 reads like this:

 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

Revelation 14:9-11 (ESV)

The context of this passage is the confrontation of the Church with the two beasts of Revelation 13. These “beasts” likely represent a strong demonic presence in a political form and a religious form. When will or did this happen? I think the most reasonable answer is that these beasts exercised their power during the Roman Empire. This doesn’t leave out the possibility that they are something still to be seen in the future. For our purposes, when they exist is irrelevant. The warning is not to receive their “mark”, which is something willingly and knowingly received, shows loyalty to the beast and rejects loyalty to Christ.

God is not soft on those who make such a choice. God’s wrath against such people is poured “full strength” into the cup of His anger. How does this fit into “God is love” and John 3:16? Jesus is given to us out of love and a desire to save people. His death is sufficient to save everyone. Outright rejection of such a heroic and costly act brings God’s wrath in full form. You experience what is known as the “alien” nature of God. God is not normally a wrathful being, but He can be.

When is this wrath revealed? It could be during the lives of the people in question, but it is definitely also a part of Judgment Day for them. While this group may find Judgment Day less tolerable than Judgment Day for others who are not saved, others will definitely also experience an eternal form of God’s wrath for basically the same reason–rejecting Christ.

Do the words of this passage suggest that God sits over these people and takes satisfaction in making them suffer eternally? While it does say that the “smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever”, I reject the idea that God and the angels are observing it or making it happen eternally. In fact, the worst part of being in the final form of Hell (The Lake of Fire) is not the fire but the abandonment by God. It is better to have God actively punishing you than to have Him forsake you. The forsakeness (God completely abandoning you) that Jesus experienced on the cross was Jesus taking the worst punishment of Hell for us.

One last thing to note about this situation is to ponder why “fire and Sulphur” doesn’t consume these people. Some “theologians” have tried to soften the idea of Hell by assuming than you burn up and are gone. That would be nice. The emphasis on the eternal nature of Hell, seems to refute that idea.

The resurrection of the dead is something that happens to all people, including the damned. The nature of the resurrected body may be why they don’t burn up. The resurrected body suffers but remains even in such a harsh environment.

By this passage we are duly warned about God’s alien nature. It is not to be trifled with. Praise God that we can experience only His love. Jesus specifically took on our forsakeness so that we never have to experience it. Thinking about God’s wrath can remain an academic topic for us.

Time and Eternity

I recently stumbled across an article with this title, “Scientists Create a State of Matter that Has Time in Two Dimensions.” In the common experience of our universe everything can be described by three spatial dimensions and the fourth is time. What would be described in that article would certainly bend the mind as most quantum mechanics does. I read only a short distance into the article before giving up. Their observation was that a second dimension of time was “borrowed” from another spatial set of dimensions “that did not exist”. I’m not sure how you arrive at that conclusion.

I share this brief synopsis to introduce the idea that time is not as straight forward as we might think. It seems to be something definitely tied to creation. It does not transcend creation. One fallacy that I have seen in some theological thinking is that we will transcend creation and time at our death. For instance, one common view is that when we die, we move forward directly to Judgment Day because we transcend time. Revelation 6:9-11 puts a hole in that theory:

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

Revelation 6:9-11 (ESV)

Here people who have been martyred, so they are definitely dead, are asking how long it will take to get to Judgment Day. They are asking a time question. They are told to wait (a time answer). Nobody is transcending anything.

I do believe in the possibility of transcending all time, space, and physical laws. That is what God does. He is the Creator of all of these things and is “outside” of the constrains of time-space. People do not become like God in this regard. This may explain why to God a “day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day.”

In the study of our universe, it was theorized and later proved that time changes as you approach the speed of light. From our experience it would seem like time is a constant. Would time remain the same if you moved into a different time-space continuum? This is what I theorize happens when we die. Heaven isn’t a distant part of our universe. It is a parallel universe that does exist. The passage of time there and the passage of time here may not be in lockstep. What would this mean for our experience? I’m not sure. I believe that post-Judgment Day we will have a resurrected body that will be movable from this renewed universe to a renewed Heaven. The Bible hints that we have an eternal inheritance in both. If time doesn’t move the same in both, that might lead to an interesting experience.

The final “time” topic I have is that of the word “eternal” itself. Is eternal a straight-line unending stream of experience? In the description of the new Earth in Isaiah 65 the length of our existence is compared to the lifespan of a tree. It doesn’t seem unending there. This dissonance with later revelations which use the word “eternal”, could be attributed to the limited revelation given to Isaiah who lives before Jesus’ victory.

God certainly had at least the ability to know that Jesus would succeed in His mission to atone for the sins of the world. He might just be not letting on to Isaiah that a place in Heaven was in the future for redeemed humans and that life in the New Earth was more than long but rather eternal. It also might be true that we just don’t know what it is like to transcend time as God does.

While I expect the meaning of “eternal” might be more complex than our minds can comprehend, I think the message is that our existence will be pleasingly unending. We will not return to beginning as some views in Eastern religions suggest.

While eternal joy sounds great, eternal suffering and damnation is another story. The Bible definitely portrays a majority being damned. It does not leave room for a damnation that consumes a being and leaves them non-existent. I suppose a possibility is that the experience of time might be vastly different in the time-space of Hell. This might mitigate the horror in some way.

With our limited experience and our limited revelation, there are more questions than answers. It is a topic that challenges the mind and leaves room for our imagination. We can be certain that whatever we experience, because of Christ, it will be good.